Any Complaints about FPSC X10/TGC post here - Lee Bamber will read this

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Any Complaints about FPSC X10/TGC post here - Lee Bamber will read this

Post  mgarand on Sat Nov 29, 2008 9:48 am

maybe you guys read issue 71. much stuff about x9 and dbpro, but nothing about x10. hmm i dont understand it.

and a question, we got a competition too, why thegamecreators dont support us with prices? they dont see this forum is way more better then their x10 board?

maybe someone know ?

ADMIN EDIT: This post will be sent to lee Bamber very soon post anything bad anything you like to here and he will read it and hopefully make a comment that will make us all not want to kill FPSC
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Re: Any Complaints about FPSC X10/TGC post here - Lee Bamber will read this

Post  Jason Brook on Sat Nov 29, 2008 9:53 am

As the board admin here i have been in talks with the TGC newsletter editor for a while about this forum their policy is support their forums only not 3rd party ones they will not support this forum at all im on my own it is hard to find prizes for compos here and i do my best.

As for the TGC newsletter i cant say anything on that im not the editor and dont have any say in it so cant choose what they talk about i know for certain that at this time FPSC X10 is below FPSC X9 and DBP for updates much lower.

I agree this forum is better (well i would lol) but i cant force them to support us more it is up to lee and TGC staff maybe someone can do a better job than i can at talking to him.


Last edited by Jason Brook on Sat Nov 29, 2008 10:19 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Any Complaints about FPSC X10/TGC post here - Lee Bamber will read this

Post  uthink on Sat Nov 29, 2008 10:03 am

Funny, I was just coming over to this board to complain about the latest TGC newsletter. I can't believe that all they have to talk about is a model pack that isn't even out yet? Even-so, it doesn't even look very attractive. Believe me, if there were a product that was somewhat comparable to X10 from another company, I'd bail on X10 and head to that product.

I've always said that I understand the resource constraints that TGC. However the communication is horrible. I think I may need to just quit reading the newsletter. It's such a disappointment. It's a sad day when the TGC is a highlight. And even then, they talk about supporting every product but X10. Yeah, yeah, I know it's coming. It's coming.
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Re: Any Complaints about FPSC X10/TGC post here - Lee Bamber will read this

Post  Jason Brook on Sat Nov 29, 2008 10:14 am

You know what i will be sending this thread to lee anything you wana say say it no rules to broken please but any complaints do post lee will be receiving this link.

ADMIN NOTE: I have changed name so everyone will know what to do here.

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Re: Any Complaints about FPSC X10/TGC post here - Lee Bamber will read this

Post  mgarand on Sat Nov 29, 2008 10:57 am

lol hmm here my point for tgc.


  • some support for challenges here (like prices)
  • we NEED updates for bugs (like no music in game)
  • more support for x10
  • maybe some better updates like video menu background and more
  • particles..... i just can make 1
  • model packs....



well this are some points . i know not everything is reachable.


Last edited by mgarand on Sun Nov 30, 2008 2:59 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Any Complaints about FPSC X10/TGC post here - Lee Bamber will read this

Post  DarthDementous on Sat Nov 29, 2008 11:10 am

My message to Lee:
Lee, you are no doubt a very intelligent person. You support FPSC X9, but ignore X10 for reasons unknown. X10 has far more potential than X9 (and I'm being fair, I'm a fan of both!).
Having no updates is one thing, but ZERO TGC Store support? That's just a bit offensive, if you don't mind me saying.
X10 opens up a whole new world of customization and opportunity for game developers and I feel you are limiting that new world. Don't hear me wrong, I respect you and support everything you do, but X10 need some love too! You will find that when X10 gets more support, YOU will get more support too!
I believe everything that is currently in X10 is good, but still has a lot of room for improvement. The actual performance doesn't need updating, it runs great on my crummy computer. What it really needs is TGC Store support and all the cut-out features seen in the tech demo (volumetric smoke, color-changing particles, moving particles, etc.)
That aside, I very much hope that you will take this message into consideration and find a place in your busy schedule to help out your friends with X10!
We all look up to you here and wish you the best, Lee.

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Re: Any Complaints about FPSC X10/TGC post here - Lee Bamber will read this

Post  rakker126 on Sat Nov 29, 2008 2:46 pm

My message:

I want that the model packs work with X10
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Re: Any Complaints about FPSC X10/TGC post here - Lee Bamber will read this

Post  Rampage on Sat Nov 29, 2008 5:24 pm

He is going to make model packs work in X10, at least that's what he said in his convention video...
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Re: Any Complaints about FPSC X10/TGC post here - Lee Bamber will read this

Post  Jason Brook on Sat Nov 29, 2008 5:40 pm

This will be sent to lee on the 1st he will hopefully make an account and talk to us about this situation

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Re: Any Complaints about FPSC X10/TGC post here - Lee Bamber will read this

Post  rakker126 on Sun Nov 30, 2008 2:02 am

Yeah but we have waited long enough
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Re: Any Complaints about FPSC X10/TGC post here - Lee Bamber will read this

Post  Jason Brook on Sun Nov 30, 2008 4:12 am

OK here is a list from the TGC boards and other people have sent me by email as they didnt want to post :

I just wish x10 worked with an ATI video card.
Seems if you don't get on the Nvidia bandwagon you can't use x10.

I know there are things we want to get our hands on in FPSC X10 such as soft particle effects which are due to go in.

What you need to remember is the migration work Lee's doing is for both FPSC X9 and X10 in order to create a common code base so both versions can benefit from development updates at the same time.

There are now a bunch of updates in X9 e.g. headshots etc which X10 will get as part of the migration and Lee has communicated we'll be getting some attention after that is complete.

Also mentioned in a recent newsletter is that an update is going into FPSC X10 to provide compatibility with all X9 models which will make a big difference.

Having the ability to create segments with normal and specular maps with good results is still enough of a reason to own X10. I don't think that will be addressed in X9 anytime soon.

TGC definately need to deliver some new X10 bells and whistles next year though otherwise people might lose interest.

Who cares about the facebook thing i just want it so i can build a game with out it crashing ever time i try and build

The community forums are well organised and well run but TGC cant see this they still look to their boards that are full of [WORD REMOVED] and are full of rubbish from users that know nothing it is really stupid if they had any sense they would just let the mods at X10 Boards run theirs.

Just moved them here for them as they didnt want to post here.

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Re: Any Complaints about FPSC X10/TGC post here - Lee Bamber will read this

Post  Jingle Fett on Sun Nov 30, 2008 5:56 pm

Hey everyone, I'm back from my thanksgiving trip! Miss me? Yeah, I bet you did... Very Happy

Anyways..oh, where to begin...
-Support has been simply dreadful. Don't get me wrong, X10 is very good. But it still is somewhat glitchy, there are no tutorials on how to get stuff in-game (except user created tuts), no tools to get stuff in-game. There are some X9 ones, but most are third-party. They aren't optimized for X10. And it should say something when most of those tools are for getting custom media in-game (weapon creator, magic fps, etc.). These sort of things should be integrated or at least so easy to do that programs like these shouldn't be necessary (I like the integrated sign/poster maker).

-Second, the X10 website needs to be updated. Or else X10 needs the update that will enable the use of parallax mapping and volumetric particles (currently you can only have one vol. particle effect in an entire map). Personally, I bought X10 thinking these features would be included, as the website claims. And then of course provide at least one example of each effect so users may figure out how it's done, or a tutorial or something.

-Release the source code, at least to people who have purchased X10. This way we can modify X10 to suit our needs and find/correct bugs ourselves if there isn't time to correct it or something.

-It's been over a year since X10 came out and how many updates have there been?

-Marketing-wise, it was a very, very bad move to release a product and then ignore it. X9 has a lot of the features X10 has and some it doesn't so at the moment, why should people buy X10? X10 is the replacement of X9 is it not? If that is the case, then why is all the work being done to improve X9? And if they're to work side by side, then there has to be a reason to choose one over the other (that reason being the needs of the buyer). Say X9 is for the casual crowd and X10 is hardcore. Depending on what the buyer wants to do, make games quick, or make AAA quality games, they'll choose one over the other. But the X9/X10 situation? Basically, almost everything X10 does, X9 can also do (through mods like the efx mod at least), and X9 is cheaper. So why buy X10, if X9 can do it and is cheaper?
Ok, fine, X10's new, we'll add other features via updates...but it's been a year.

Don't get me wrong; I love X10 and wouldn't choose X9 over it. But with the lack of support, I'm eyeing other engines too...

[Edit] Apparently there is parallax mapping and I just somehow missed it since purchasing X10. I've been told that there is parallax relief mapping. When looking at the files, I never saw anything that would indicate that the assault rifle and Techmetal segment had parallax relief mapping, I just assumed it was normal mapping.[\Edit]


Last edited by Jingle Fett on Tue Dec 02, 2008 7:09 pm; edited 3 times in total

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Re: Any Complaints about FPSC X10/TGC post here - Lee Bamber will read this

Post  uthink on Sun Nov 30, 2008 8:09 pm

- Communication - Many of us bought into X10 being the future. It wasn't until after the fact, that we found there would be minimal support as attention turned to X9. Granted TGC was quick to respond with major bug fixes. However, feature/function enhancements and minor bug fixes appear to be more than a year away from release date. Still to this day, X10 developers are looking for a strategic vision for X10 that spans further than the next release. If we are to take a shot at developing commercial games in X10, we need to know that we'll have a stable platform that will be there for us down the road. Most of us know that we cannot release anything with existing build. I know that the developers don't troll the boards looking for issues to address. But the board can't exist in a vacum. There needs to be a better connection between the board (community) and development.

- Support for Content - As one of the early adopters of X10, I was part of a small group trying to figure out how the new normal and specular maps worked with X10 when creating new segments. (http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=120555&b=33) Repeatedly we asked for help and were ignored. One hour of a TGC developers time could have created a tutorial that would have saved dozens of us frustrating hours as we worked to figure out how the new functionality worked. I've struggled to understand the policy of of changes and new functionality with no documentation.

- I've spent most of the year on game design and content. So I've actually done very little work in X10. I used it quite a bit after the initial bug fixes and found that there still needed to be a few more releases before it's ready for prime-time. So this has also given me the luxury of looking at other engines. Obviously there would be quite a bit more work, but support from the vendors and communities of other engines is much stronger and becomes more appealing with every month going by. I've already seen a number of well established X9 developers move to other engines. Engines with successful commercial releases to their credit. I would hope that TGC could move to being part of that group rather than just talking about what could be done with FPSC.
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Re: Any Complaints about FPSC X10/TGC post here - Lee Bamber will read this

Post  Jason Brook on Mon Dec 01, 2008 7:49 am

This has just been sent to Lee hope he decides to read this.

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Re: Any Complaints about FPSC X10/TGC post here - Lee Bamber will read this

Post  mgarand on Tue Dec 02, 2008 2:13 pm

pray for it....

i realy need an update before the end of competition, (soundtrakcs, voices)
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Re: Any Complaints about FPSC X10/TGC post here - Lee Bamber will read this

Post  Jingle Fett on Thu Dec 04, 2008 6:12 pm

Ok, so I was replying to Plystire's comment on the TGC forum, when it was conveniently locked. Here's what I would have replied (I'm only bringing it up because I was wrote about a few things that weren't mentioned before)...

[rant]

This is absurd. FPSC X10 does not deserve updates at this point in time. Let me explain; FPSC X10 is the future of FPSC, not the now of FPSC. The now FPSC is still X9. This is why Lee has dedicated time and effort into making it stable and fast. The amount of people who can run X9 games still vastly outweigh the amount of people who can run X10 games. (Even IF there weren\'t any compatibility issues)

Based on that logic then we shouldn\'t have bought X10 at all and it shouldn\'t have been released then, or was released prematurely. The future is supposed to replace the now the moment it comes out. X10 is actually the now (or it\'s supposed to be) because it is the most recent product on the FPSC line. X10 was the future before it was released, therefore when it came out, it became the current generation. And you only release the new generation when it\'s going to replace the previous one. Nothing against X9 (I own it too), but when X10 came out it started deserving all or most of the support. If TGC wanted it to outsell X9 anyways.

It\'s just not good from a business standpoint; you release a new product to replace the old one, not to compete with it. If you want the new one to succeed, you throw all your support behind it because it is the future. What position would Sony or Nintendo be in if after releasing their newest console they ignored it entirely and focused on the previous generation? For a whole year?The current gen consoles are a success because all the games/support is going to them and not the previous one.

And if X10 still is just the future, then what should people who haven\'t bought X9 or X10 do, those who are undecided? Buy X9 because it\'s the now? But what about when X10 becomes the official now? They\'ll have to buy that too then. If X10 is the future, then thinking ahead, they would be wise to choose it over X9. But X10 is still the future and isn\'t getting proper support. So what the hell do they buy?! Seems to me like the idea is to get people to buy both...I know I had to buy X9 just because of certain X10 issues...I don\'t even use it, but it\'s much more stable and I find myself wondering why isn\'t X10 like that? I bought X10 under the impression that because it was the new generation of FPSC, it was simply better to get because of that- that by buying it I\'d be set for the future. Only it turns out X9 is what\'s being used and what is getting all the attention. For a year. Had I known that when X10 came out (and what Ply said), i probably would have just gone with X9.

I'm not calling for X10 to be taken off the shelves or anything, it\'s just that I still don\'t get the plan because it makes absolutely no sense. I\'ve invested quite a bit of time and money (get a new graphics card and mother board that supported it, plus the recommended processor) and for what? I\'m sorry, but I\'m just getting tired of this.
[\end rant]

I do hope we get a response soon....

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Re: Any Complaints about FPSC X10/TGC post here - Lee Bamber will read this

Post  uthink on Thu Dec 04, 2008 7:19 pm

It was inevitable that the thread would be shut down. That's why I think that with a little time, this board will be the place to be. I thought it was a thread with healthy venting. No one got personal. But as we've seen in the past, the mods in TGC only want happy thoughts. Although I'll give them credit for letting this one run a while. Hopefully TGC will realize that ignoring a problem doesn't make it go away. Unless of course you don't believe that unhappy customers is a problem. Suckers! LOL
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Re: Any Complaints about FPSC X10/TGC post here - Lee Bamber will read this

Post  mgarand on Fri Dec 05, 2008 4:52 am

maybe lee is making fps creator x11 Shocked

and when we bought it he is gonna improve x10 lol
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Re: Any Complaints about FPSC X10/TGC post here - Lee Bamber will read this

Post  plasma on Fri Dec 05, 2008 6:25 am

From Lee @ TGC
Sorry for the lack of movement on the X10 side of things. A few users hit the nail on the head when they guessed that as we have so many products now, supporting them all equally is a juggling act. The reason I have left X10 update a little longer than the others is that I spent almost 15 months solid on X10 and left X9, DBP and GDK to drift so I wanted to redress that balance in 2008.

TGC does have a game plan, but we are always willing to listen to the community and change those plans if enough users want it badly enough. We had planned to finish the last V114 update to X9 and the U71 update to DBP and then move squarely onto the migration work and the X9 models in X10 update.

I have unlocked this thread (sorry uman) just to get some feedback from X10 users (and X9 users) on an alternative strategy. Instead of migrating the X9 source code to X10, we could do some dedicated work on X10 after Christmas to address the key concerns such as loading X9 models, ATI compatibility, advanced particle effects, integration of the Game Creator Store and a few minor feature adds to keep the ball rolling (perhaps those head-shots and bringing the FPI language up to date with X9).

These are your game making tools, and I want you to have more nice things to say about them than bad things If I can get a vote of hands whether you want us to inject a little X10 development work into the first few months of 2009, let me know and we can go from there.

Also, if anyone is having an ATI problem, can you post here your card details and operating system that supports it with the driver version you have installed, and a brief description of what is going wrong. I have a new ATI card that does strange things with X10, but I want a more definitive list so I can really get to grips with why they are not playing nicely with X10 at the moment.
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Re: Any Complaints about FPSC X10/TGC post here - Lee Bamber will read this

Post  plasma on Fri Dec 05, 2008 6:28 am

From Lee's post it seems like they DO NOT want to hire any more developer to actually take care of the problem at hand, they would just like to cuddle up to those who need it and give then continue what they are doing.

I have unlocked this thread (sorry uman) just to get some feedback from X10 users (and X9 users) on an alternative strategy. Instead of migrating the X9 source code to X10, we could do some dedicated work on X10 after Christmas to address the key concerns such as loading X9 models, ATI compatibility, advanced particle effects, integration of the Game Creator Store and a few minor feature adds to keep the ball rolling (perhaps those head-shots and bringing the FPI language up to date with X9).

So, they haven't started the migration, meaning if they kept with their own game plan it would be a very long time before X10 saw any updates.
I find it also funny that the FPI Language is older compared to X9. Very funny, FPS Creator X10 is the future (or so they say) why is it lacking when its father (X9) has more features.


Anyway it will be very interesting to see what actually comes out of it. My personal opinion is that after the release of X9 comes out, Lee will work on X10, then Migration and we will not see another update for quite awhile.
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Re: Any Complaints about FPSC X10/TGC post here - Lee Bamber will read this

Post  uthink on Fri Dec 05, 2008 9:05 am

It's awesome that Lee opened the thread back up. He really is listening.
So everyone get your butts over there and post what you want him to work on!

Now! Do it!!! LOL
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Re: Any Complaints about FPSC X10/TGC post here - Lee Bamber will read this

Post  plasma on Fri Dec 05, 2008 11:19 am

uthink wrote:It's awesome that Lee opened the thread back up. He really is listening.
So everyone get your butts over there and post what you want him to work on!

I think TGC will slouch back into the way things are going. Lee will release 1 update and then all focus is done. What TGC really needs is to hire more programmers.

Collab: Dark Basic / GDK
Lee + Programmer A: FPS X9/10 (as one works on fixes, the other works on improvements)
Programmer B: Facebook Game App
Programmer C: Other Game Tools

I main issue is that TGC is not hiring programmers (or maybe the are, but they are not working on the tools out there already). If you remember watching the videos there was 1 guy who had worked on 3 or 4 projects that all failed until the facebook application.
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Re: Any Complaints about FPSC X10/TGC post here - Lee Bamber will read this

Post  uthink on Fri Dec 05, 2008 11:39 am

Well TGC has found a niche that has been theirs to mature as they see fit. However that window of opportunity is closing. Their success has been by acquisition, not sales. At some point, some of the major players are going to realize that they could take their band of infinite resources and blow TGC away. Or they could buy TGC. I've speculated that the latter is what TGC wants. I'll bet that Lee would love to sell the company and be hired on as Lead Consultant Extraordinaire. Be that as it may, with this economy no one is going to buy anytime soon. So TGC better continue to make themselves look like a good investment. Just look at the success of iPhone apps. People are turning new ones out every week. How many FPSC games have been released in the last year?
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Re: Any Complaints about FPSC X10/TGC post here - Lee Bamber will read this

Post  mgarand on Fri Dec 05, 2008 3:22 pm

please lee, when i builded my game, and test it. i dont hear any voices/soundtracks i added in my game, also with nearly every level i get errors with building!

help
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Re: Any Complaints about FPSC X10/TGC post here - Lee Bamber will read this

Post  rakker126 on Sat Dec 06, 2008 3:10 pm

Are they .ogg?
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Re: Any Complaints about FPSC X10/TGC post here - Lee Bamber will read this

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